Comments on: FOAF – Building Networks With a Friend of a Friend http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/ Connecting People With Technology Sun, 13 May 2012 07:51:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Henry Story http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-18235 Henry Story Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:24:31 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-18235 Hi, there are some interesting new developments with foaf that allow us now to have distributed SECURE social networks. By combining foaf and ssl one could set up a distributed version of Facebook, allowing people to see different views of resources depending on their relationship to the owner of the resource. This allows global identification in one click without username or password. See the video of a talk I gave at Hackers At Random http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/camping_and_hacking_at_har2009 Or a longer version at the Free Opens Source Conference in Germany http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/froscon_the_free_and_open There are now initial open source implementation of this in php (and a package for Drupal) perl, python, and java. http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl For those in the Bay Area on November 2nd there will be a Bar Camp covering this at Sun Microsystems, Santa Clara http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara Hi,

there are some interesting new developments with foaf that allow us now to have distributed SECURE social networks. By combining foaf and ssl one could set up a distributed version of Facebook, allowing people to see different views of resources depending on their relationship to the owner of the resource. This allows global identification in one click without username or password.

See the video of a talk I gave at Hackers At Random

http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/camping_and_hacking_at_har2009

Or a longer version at the Free Opens Source Conference in Germany

http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/froscon_the_free_and_open

There are now initial open source implementation of this in php (and a package for Drupal) perl, python, and java.

http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl

For those in the Bay Area on November 2nd there will be a Bar Camp covering this at Sun Microsystems, Santa Clara

http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara

]]> By: Benjamin http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-18233 Benjamin Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:31:20 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-18233 As long as a technology is a 'technology' it will struggle to gain adoption. Once the technology becomes invisible, then it breaks through. Twitter is twitter (how many people other than us call it a micro-blogging service?) - DSL went mainstream when it became a service for downloading for music and watching videos. So, I'm agreeing. FOAF needs to be packaged up and used in services. Discovering mutual friends is one of the great things about on-line social networks. I wish that the services would made it easier. As long as a technology is a ‘technology’ it will struggle to gain adoption. Once the technology becomes invisible, then it breaks through. Twitter is twitter (how many people other than us call it a micro-blogging service?) – DSL went mainstream when it became a service for downloading for music and watching videos.

So, I’m agreeing. FOAF needs to be packaged up and used in services. Discovering mutual friends is one of the great things about on-line social networks. I wish that the services would made it easier.

]]> By: Barry O'Gorman http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-18223 Barry O'Gorman Sat, 17 Oct 2009 06:09:05 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-18223 Interesting having come, I would have thought, quite late to FOAF. Seems to me that there is very little awareness/ understanding amongst colleagues and others who are extensive users of social networking (twitter, facebook, linkedin). I seem to recall a piece by Tim O'Reilly some tome ago - explaining the difference from his perspective between facebook and twitter. It was a long the lines that in twitter anyone may choose to follow him whereas in facebook you have this approval step. And he spoke positively of the twitter experience in this context. WRT FOAF I think it will struggle to achieve significant adoption when it requires users to think in terms of having their own web presence and adding a page (with their FOAF details) to their web presence. Anything along these lines is just too complex for most users. And then if they are expected to engage in updating the FOAF file themselves (ie does not happen in some automated fashion) we are lost. I think we need FOAF - but we need FOAF packaged, marketed and supported in a completely different way. Nad maybe then that's self defeating - because effectively FOAF becomes another application at that stage. Interesting having come, I would have thought, quite late to FOAF. Seems to me that there is very little awareness/ understanding amongst colleagues and others who are extensive users of social networking (twitter, facebook, linkedin).

I seem to recall a piece by Tim O’Reilly some tome ago – explaining the difference from his perspective between facebook and twitter. It was a long the lines that in twitter anyone may choose to follow him whereas in facebook you have this approval step. And he spoke positively of the twitter experience in this context.

WRT FOAF I think it will struggle to achieve significant adoption when it requires users to think in terms of having their own web presence and adding a page (with their FOAF details) to their web presence. Anything along these lines is just too complex for most users. And then if they are expected to engage in updating the FOAF file themselves (ie does not happen in some automated fashion) we are lost.

I think we need FOAF – but we need FOAF packaged, marketed and supported in a completely different way. Nad maybe then that’s self defeating – because effectively FOAF becomes another application at that stage.

]]> By: simple codified shared trust networks | shikora.org http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-15198 simple codified shared trust networks | shikora.org Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:07:52 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-15198 [...] Like twitter, I think the power here is in keeping the information simple, and allowing the clients to add the complex usage patterns. It so happens there is a format for sharing social network information in tuples called FOAF data. One way of accomplishing this would be to just add a tag and value tuple to standard FOAF data. Thankfully the RDF allows redefinitions pretty easily. One link that descriptes RDF and FOAF data is here. [...] [...] Like twitter, I think the power here is in keeping the information simple, and allowing the clients to add the complex usage patterns. It so happens there is a format for sharing social network information in tuples called FOAF data. One way of accomplishing this would be to just add a tag and value tuple to standard FOAF data. Thankfully the RDF allows redefinitions pretty easily. One link that descriptes RDF and FOAF data is here. [...]

]]> By: Steve http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-8002 Steve Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:47:42 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-8002 I met Mike at a Steve Lawson gig. Recently I got to know someone who previously worked with Libby and Dan, the creators of FOAF. It's a small, interconnected world. Systems like FOAF would help us in discovering these connections. I've read a few articles on the possible applications, but not seen so many implemented. A lot of these articles are getting on a bit, like this one from 2002 http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-foaf.html Google have written about it more recently http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/ I've incorporated some of these ideas into my web site, Something I have yet to do is to generate parts of it from data in my FOAF file. I meant to say that one issue with FOAF is that it's tricky to restrict access to certain data. I'm reluctant to expose some details like my home address, DoB and others. I do give my email address, but use hashes for my friends in case they do not wish to do so. I met Mike at a Steve Lawson gig. Recently I got to know someone who previously worked with Libby and Dan, the creators of FOAF. It’s a small, interconnected world. Systems like FOAF would help us in discovering these connections.

I’ve read a few articles on the possible applications, but not seen so many implemented. A lot of these articles are getting on a bit, like this one from 2002

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-foaf.html

Google have written about it more recently

http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/

I’ve incorporated some of these ideas into my web site, Something I have yet to do is to generate parts of it from data in my FOAF file.

I meant to say that one issue with FOAF is that it’s tricky to restrict access to certain data. I’m reluctant to expose some details like my home address, DoB and others. I do give my email address, but use hashes for my friends in case they do not wish to do so.

]]> By: Benjamin http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-8001 Benjamin Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:52:01 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-8001 Hello Mike, fancy meeting you here :). What you describe is the friend-fan concept that social media has dragged into being (see <a href="http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/social-media-do-conversations-scale/" rel="nofollow">Social Media - Do Conversations Scale?</a> - the merky world between broadcast and conversations. FOAF itself is actually asymmetric - it says who I think my friends are, but not the other way around. An application could pull that friends FOAF information and see if they listed me as a friend as well (although Twitter doesn't use FOAF, the <a href="http://friendorfollow.com/" rel="nofollow">Friend of follow app</a> does this for twitter). I've juggled FOAF as a social concept (ie people one degree of friendship away) and FOAF the format in the post - hopefully not in a confusing way. They seem interesting ideas to juxtapose. Good thoughts on meta-data - especially if it is auto generated. We must chat about that next time our basses bring us together! Hello Steve (wondering if you know Mike already? :) ) - I hadn't noticed the support in MyBlogLog - I'll have to dig into that, thank you! <a href="http://twitter.com/libbymiller" rel="nofollow">@libbymiller</a> provided a few thoughts via twitter: Firstly, for specific relationship types you can use foaf with <a href="http://vocab.org/relationship/" rel="nofollow">http://vocab.org/relationship/</a>, and also pointed me to this blog post: <a href="http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/2009/01/14/w3c-workshop-on-the-future-of-social-networking-2/" rel="nofollow">W3C Workshop on the Future of Social Networking</a>. Hello Mike, fancy meeting you here :). What you describe is the friend-fan concept that social media has dragged into being (see Social Media – Do Conversations Scale? – the merky world between broadcast and conversations.

FOAF itself is actually asymmetric – it says who I think my friends are, but not the other way around. An application could pull that friends FOAF information and see if they listed me as a friend as well (although Twitter doesn’t use FOAF, the Friend of follow app does this for twitter).

I’ve juggled FOAF as a social concept (ie people one degree of friendship away) and FOAF the format in the post – hopefully not in a confusing way. They seem interesting ideas to juxtapose.

Good thoughts on meta-data – especially if it is auto generated. We must chat about that next time our basses bring us together!

Hello Steve (wondering if you know Mike already? :) ) – I hadn’t noticed the support in MyBlogLog – I’ll have to dig into that, thank you!

@libbymiller provided a few thoughts via twitter: Firstly, for specific relationship types you can use foaf with http://vocab.org/relationship/, and also pointed me to this blog post: W3C Workshop on the Future of Social Networking.

]]> By: Steve http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-8000 Steve Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:33:06 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-8000 I started playing with FOAF a few years ago. I like the idea that you can define your relationships and personal details independently of proprietary services like Facebook, but also that the data can be easily processed to infer all sorts of things. I initially generated a file using Leigh Dodds' web app, but have extended it a lot manually. I've only got a couple of friends who have done likewise that I could link to. As you say a few services do provide a FOAF file, but not too many people know what that is. I was a mention of FOAF support on MyBlogLog that led me there so that I could play with this tool http://kentbrewster.com/foafster/?q=steevc We're linked there! I keep hoping that the semantic web will become what Timbl intended, but it's taking a while. I know Google have been making use of FOAF and XFN in their profiles feature, but it seems that is only to discover what services you use. Welcome to Web 3.x I started playing with FOAF a few years ago. I like the idea that you can define your relationships and personal details independently of proprietary services like Facebook, but also that the data can be easily processed to infer all sorts of things.

I initially generated a file using Leigh Dodds’ web app, but have extended it a lot manually. I’ve only got a couple of friends who have done likewise that I could link to. As you say a few services do provide a FOAF file, but not too many people know what that is.

I was a mention of FOAF support on MyBlogLog that led me there so that I could play with this tool

http://kentbrewster.com/foafster/?q=steevc

We’re linked there!

I keep hoping that the semantic web will become what Timbl intended, but it’s taking a while. I know Google have been making use of FOAF and XFN in their profiles feature, but it seems that is only to discover what services you use.

Welcome to Web 3.x

]]> By: Mike K Smith http://redcatco.com/blog/communication/foaf-building-networks-with-a-friend-of-a-friend/comment-page-1/#comment-7990 Mike K Smith Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:53:37 +0000 http://redcatco.com/?p=1191#comment-7990 I'm guessing though that you may want to qualify your definition of FOAF by the number of two-way interactions between parties. For example, I follow @stephenfry on Twitter and he follows me (poor man!) but I wouldn't dream of calling Stephen a friend in the way that I would call you a friend. i.e. I know you, we socially interact in real life as well as in the interwebosphere. So if we're both on Twitter and have exchanged, say >5 Tweets with each other, the chances are we could call each other friends... However Facebook (bless it!) because it needs acceptance of friend requests is a bit more bona fide FOAF material. In my job as a statistician in a multinational company, making use of meta-data is often seen as the "next big thing" but you often need a heck of a lot of context to go with that data to judge whether it's appropriate to combine it and / or whether the inferences you make from it aren't being biased by the collection method in one of the sources. I’m guessing though that you may want to qualify your definition of FOAF by the number of two-way interactions between parties. For example, I follow @stephenfry on Twitter and he follows me (poor man!) but I wouldn’t dream of calling Stephen a friend in the way that I would call you a friend. i.e. I know you, we socially interact in real life as well as in the interwebosphere. So if we’re both on Twitter and have exchanged, say >5 Tweets with each other, the chances are we could call each other friends… However Facebook (bless it!) because it needs acceptance of friend requests is a bit more bona fide FOAF material.

In my job as a statistician in a multinational company, making use of meta-data is often seen as the “next big thing” but you often need a heck of a lot of context to go with that data to judge whether it’s appropriate to combine it and / or whether the inferences you make from it aren’t being biased by the collection method in one of the sources.

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